IN OUR NATURE | Part 2 of an Interview with Nate Fox and Jason Connell

I’m lucky to have spent some time with great devs throughout my creator life.

From Insomniac to Santa Monica Studios, it’s always a thrill to meet the creators of your favorite games. And this time around it was with Co-Creative Directors, Nate Fox and Jason Connell, of Sucker Punch Productions. And we were going to be talking about their latest upcoming title, Ghost Of Yōtei. No big whoop, you know.

If you’re keeping score, the first interview is over at Yeah Nah Gaming. It’s a site I work on with a group of collaborators, who are even better friends. In this interview we covered how I’m the loveliest man in gaming for New Zealand, and other things about Yōtei. Honestly it’s a lovely read. Emphasis on the loveliest. But today it’s about the design. Or elements I felt tiptoed around the category.

[so] It’s very valuable to talk to folks who really understand the background of the kind of things that Atsu would be seeing at the time.”

Nate Fox, Co-Creative Director (Sucker Punch Productions)

Jason Connell provided me with a beautiful segue to start talking about this element. Regarding their time with the Ainu, I provided a quote that Nate Fox had given to GamesRadar. He said they reached out to experts in different fields to help guide them in how to do things correctly.

I wondered how this applied to Yōtei, and what roles these experts play in the creative pipeline at Sucker Punch.

“Like Jason was saying, we don’t come from that cultural background, and so there are some things that we know are missing. You know, one of my favourite [moments] is, we were talking to our Ainu advisor about how kids are taught archery in that culture and they would roll hoops made of a kind of thin wood and shoot arrows through them. And, it’s a kind of thing that helps fill in the landscape of the game that we’re making.”

I really enjoyed the angle Fox was taking here. Similar to my own tiptoeing around whether the questions I asked relate to design, it saw them touch on this very element. “How does the architecture of the time function? Or garments? What was the role of cartography at this time? We got a lot of feedback that we can take in. Then we try and put them into the game in a way that has a feeling of authenticity.”

We’re inspired by history, but we’re not making a stone-for-stone reproduction of Ezo, 1603.”

Nate Fox, Co-Creative Director (Sucker Punch Productions)

“We are, as you pointed out, making a entertainment product, and we’re very glad that our advisors understand that sometimes you make decisions that’ll help the game have more impact even if it’s a little bit off”. Yup, this is one of those fun “read the other article” times. Because it was around the context of how do you act as custodians of a culture versus making a product for a wider audience. “For instance, in Ghost of Tsushima, all of our samurais carry katanas. Because that’s the classic samurai weapon. Even though at the time it wasn’t a weapon that had really been invented yet”. Which is correct. Jin Sakai’s story was in 1274 while katana weren’t really used until around the Muromachi period in the early 1300’s. Which lines up with Atsu’s time period in Ghost Of Yōtei.

“But it makes that samurai film fantasy, which is what we’re going after, that much more alive.”

I advised that I liked how they worked to ensure that it wouldn’t only be a piece of media which could be enjoyed by many. But it’s also one that works hard to respect the cultures and people’s that it lifts its story from. Enjoying that Fox had touched on cartography, and by proxy the layout of the world, I asked Connell about an interview with Red Bull. There he spoke about how they didn’t want to go for hyper realism and that they wanted people enjoy these landscapes and take photos of it. They wanted them to feel a sense that all these things could be real. I wondered if this helped with their innovative navigation system? And whether or not it helped reinvent Yōtei or simply enhance or redefine Atsu’s journey.

We are constantly looking for ways to use the environment to guide you through whatever it is you’re doing.”

Jason Connell, Co-Creative Director (Sucker Punch Productions)

“It could be, in the case you’re talking about, waypoint navigation or figuring out where to go next. That’s the main purpose of the wind; a diegetic nature guide that you can control”. That quote hit me like I’d been stunned by a ninja tool. Connell’s passion for Yōtei’s design and cultural appreciation bleeding through as he continued speaking.

“It’s like the game’s environment and natural landscape are a tool for you. And we try to find like five of those tools, or you know 10 if we can. And Yōtei actually being a pretty wild place, we’ve expanded the sight lines for it quite significantly to really try to capture that feeling of it. That this place is massive and epic.” Which I know would excite many who enjoyed the sheer size of Tsushima, and the beauty to be discovered as you explored it.

“There’s a couple things that just kinda came up.”

“[Like one] We did improve the wind a little bit. One of the criticisms of the wind is that it’s very linear. You know, it only pointed you exactly where you go. And it sort of did not pay attention to large scale sort of obstructions”. I was glad to hear this. The amount of times I’d get disorientated in a forest because the wind would simply tell me to teleport through the trees. “In Hokkaidō, or Ezo back in that time period, in the game’s landscape there are pretty significant mountains. So we’ve improved it a bit to sort of move around [some of] those massive landscapes to make it a little bit easier to to to follow”. You’d almost sigh in relief, but I’m the type of gamer to try to ‘Skyrim’ myself up those mountains. And I may still end up doing so.

“The nature really kind of presents itself with a whole bunch of other cool stuff. Like in the State Of Play, we showed Atsu, kind of riding through the white flowers. If you find those flowers that look like almost a river of flowers, they do two things. One, she loves riding through it so she gets a sense of joy by going into it. She [also] gets a little bit of a speed boost. So you’ll see those in those big open areas. But also many times, they actually lead you to things”. A hint that the flowers aren’t just a dynamic piece of the world, but also a way to guide players to more.

“There’s a subtle sort of guidance to say “Hey. This is a big place!”. We know that for some people they’re just gonna explore everything, but another person might wanna take a little bit of a shortcut. And that’s just nature being really inspiring. And then there’s nature that inspires us in ways that are not wayfinding”.

“It’s sort of, you know, exploration focused like the wolf”.

You may have seen the wolf during the State Of Play. “The Ezo wolf is extinct” says Connell. A jarring sentiment, but one that grabs the tendrils of time and sees this long gone animal return for Ghost Of Yōtei. “Being able to showcase it in a way that’s this lone wolf companion that’s kind of a symbol of her, that’s nature”.

The game’s setting has spoken to us and gives us ideas, and we’ve really tried to run with as many of those as we can.”

Jason Connell, Co-Creative Director (Sucker Punch Productions)

I liked how Connell spoke of nature and how, similarly to wind in the game, it guided them forward. After Connell’s great conversation on these elements, I wondered if Fox had anything to add. “I really appreciate the wolf tremendously because it’s such a strong expression of Ezo in the moment. And I realize I’m just doubling up on what Jason said, but it’s pretty dear to me”. Which is totally fine with me, because I would like to hear more about this wolf.

“Another one that I really like is there are times when you’re out in this very vast wilderness”. I let go of hearing any more about the wolf, and take a breath. “And we try hard to have these incredibly long sight distances where it feels like the mountainscapes go on forever and ever. And you’ll see a a herd of horses running and they’re beautiful. Then you can get in and amongst them and ride inside of the herd, and you pick up speed as a result.” This a new addition to how the flowers can boost Atsu and her steed. It appears riding amongst the wild horses will produce the same effect.

That really tells me as a player, it makes me feel like “Man, this place is a lot”. And it is with these elements of the natural world that to me is it brings some magic in that moment.”

Nate Fox, Co-Creative Director (Sucker Punch Productions)

And just like that, they had guided us toward our next portion of the interview. I loved everything they had covered around having to almost renavigate what they did in Tsushima into finer detail. A requirement of the nature they built themselves around with Ezo, which would one day become Hokkaidō. And with it, they really shared the sense of scale to Atsu’s journey to find the Yōtei 6 and her revenge.

Join us back here very soon, for a final section I like to call: FUN.