I can sympathize with the gaming industry.
I too feel the weight of crunch. As we headed toward New Zealand’s Labour Weekend, I was afforded some great opportunities. This was, of course, thanks to my friends at PlayStation NZ. And while one weight may be crunch, which in itself involves time. Another weight is also mental health. Which affects production. Which can also be supplanted by crunch? I guess such is the way of things. These things have thusly affected my normal output. And when it comes to these opportunities, I normally love to find the story in them.
My story in them.
How did it affect me? How do I connect to it? And so on. But the show must go on. Especially when it’s for a title that’s just received an incredible update on the PlayStation 5. And that title is Ghost Of Yōtei. A title which I may have already interviewed 3 of the developers for. That’s right. Nate Fox and Jason Connell. And then Rob Davis when he visited us here in Aotearoa. And now it’s the turn for Production Art Director, Joanna Wang, and Systems Design Lead, Parker Hamilton.
After entering the meeting with Atsu’s mask and creating a stir, I congratulate the pair on the success of Yōtei and their ability to then release the Complete Edition within a year.
Which means my first question is asking when they sleep.
“Yeah…well…sleep and the rest…” remarks Wang. Hamilton laughs and adds “It’s great fun. We’re just…always so passionate. It’s just burning inside everybody to kind of keep creating. So I think, like Jo has said, we’ll sleep one day.”
I hope they do if it leads to more titles like Ghost Of Yōtei.
“I actually found a quote of yours when I spoke with Rob” I say to Wang. “And that quote was with Ghost of Yōtei, you didn’t just want it to be bigger. You wanted it to be more alive. So Yōtei is the franchise’s biggest world. Did pursuing ‘alive’ compromise scale or did ‘alive’ help bring to life the complete edition of Ghost of Yōtei?
We have 2 words we often use for how we describe the world; [we try to make a] Living Painting.”
Joanna Wang, Production Art Director (Sucker Punch Productions)
“Right? It’s not just have a cool composition or actually have a bold color. The world was moving and breathing with you and when you go through that journey and the world is like another character beside you, when you feel sad. The world feels sad with you. When you feel happy, there’s sunlight which will cheer with you.”
“So it’s like a living painting. That’s one way we say it. Another way is minimalism. That’s the interesting way of instead of adding more things, we actually take things out because players attention is very limited. So we need to strip everything out, make the central message more centralized and then the attention’s there. With that attention, we will have a player who finds those interesting curiosity points and wants to go to discover it. And with the new Complete Edition, the Ashoro Foothills we’re creating are no different. We’ve been looking at and saying “What flower did we not make yet? What trees and grass did we not make yet?”.
We’ve been doing a lot with the color palette around the world when trying to build this rich place.”
Joanna Wang, Production Art Director (Sucker Punch Productions)
“The one interesting thing we came up with, is we are going to tie it to the Snake.”
“He is one of the Yōtei 6 who was killed early, and now we are able to bring this place back to tie to him. He is someone who suffered a pain and it’s why he has a very twisted personality. And we thought that’s what this area can be. His followers, the Vipers, take whatever nature was offering and completely destroyed it leaving nothing there. So the valley looks decayed. Which gave us a cool idea.”
“What if the valley is healing along the way? As the story progressed, it heals and this is another way of showing how dynamic the world is as you journey with Atsu.”
“When you first enter the Ashoro Foothills, the colors have been drained out. Animal bones are everywhere and the forest is destroyed. And as certain missions progress the story, you can see the grass going green again. Flowers opening up and even the dead trees and vines start wrapping around as they both grow back.”
“So the world becomes more lush and the weather clears out the fog. It’s just another way we try to kind of see how far we can push the game and how far we can still go after using all the color. We can create another dynamic for the world we are making.”
I then ask Parker for his own feelings on the same question.
“It’s a great question. We are really motivated by two pillars: Character story. It’s a really important part of it. And then combat is a huge part of it. And with the Complete Edition, we’re bringing both the ‘Echoes of Sekigahara’ and ‘Most Wanted’. We could kind of really experience both of these pillars in Echoes and really lean into the combat side on on Most Wanted. But in the Ashoro Foothills, one of the things that, to speak to Joanna’s points are, the Vipers are this faction that have followers of the Snake. But in the Snake’s absence, they’re sort of in-fighting and contending with each other and they are hunters. So they are sort of tearing apart this land.”
“These sort of themes kind of play out in the content and gameplay. They have traps as part of their hunting. And you have to contend with that. They’ll have arrows that’ll stick deep into your arm and you’re going to have to pull them out before you’re able to kind of use your spirit to heal. And of course, they have bolas that are able to immobilize you for a minute and you have to rush to get out of it before someone reaches you.”
We really lean into those themes to introduce new challenges and also new opportunities.”
Parker Hamilton, Systems Design Lead (Sucker Punch Productions)
“New opportunities for characters like Nagato, who’s a new companion in the ‘Echoes of Sekigahara’, who’s really cool because he gets to be a vessel for us to see a different side of Atsu. He helps us learn of Atsu’s past before she comes back to Ezo to start her revenge. He’s also kind of a cool character to play off the new gameplay mechanics.”
“In each of our valleys, we often try to have a companion which features new mechanics”.
“So Nagato is a really cool companion with a sniping mechanic. Then we add new skills like being able to catch arrows and fire them back, as well as some new armor which kind of plays into these themes. So it’s really quite a lot of cool opportunities to highlight all of this in the new modes for both new and returning players.”
I remark that I “like what you guys are saying. That it almost feels like the Vipers are this analogy for giant snake that’s been beheaded and now it’s reacting without the head”.
“Well, I think what for us, one of the things we were just really excited to do with Most Wanted is…we love the diversity of the combat experience”.
We love the, we call it the golden triangle of: Stealth, Combat and Range experiences.”
Parker Hamilton, Systems Design Lead (Sucker Punch Productions)
“There’s so much diversity within any of those areas that we kind of wanted to create a mode where people can just replay over and over again and have different, fresh experiences which create memories that you want to share with your friends and challenge you to become master of some of the different mechanics in in the base game.”
“Atsu can acquire all of these different pieces of gear and skills. So we necessarily have to balance things for that”.
“But Most Wanted has a limited kit and with the introduction of rogue-like elements, we can really focus on a core loadout which players get to sort of lean into. Core skills and mechanics which are then kind of improvisational and reactive to the cool perks.”
“We’ve got over 300 perks which will keep it a fresh experience. So really cool opportunities happen where where we’re hoping players get rewarded with the fun sort of dynamic outputs of lightning triggering a poison cloud or even the ability to sort of summon the wolves.”
“But this dynamic of just like reacting to the waves of enemies and the duels and trying to figure out how to combine them and balance against them is the sort of thing we were really excited to build on. Because it was something which reflected how much we love the combat. And how we wanted to kind of play around with it and see if there were new ways we could experience it different than we’ve done in other areas of Yōtei, like in the Base game or in the Legends mode”.
I love that you spoke to the chaos as that’s incidentally what happened to me when I picked up a weapon off the ground, killed one enemy. Threw another weapon, then hit them with a sword and lightning struck them. And I thought “You know what. That’s a lot for one person to take”, so I of enjoyed the chaos in it.
Same question for you there, Joanna. What did you want to bring with the Most Wanted mode? What were you hoping to succeed in implementing it?
“We’re able to see how every player walks away with a completely different experience. And we have a strong foundation for the game already built.
We have the characters. We have the world. And then this is another layer of opportunities for you to able to explore and enjoy this world. This environment. To spend more time with these characters and enjoy the combat and then just do fun things. You know, how you can go in and do more things with the wolves right. When I first time see the multiple wolves jump out, I thought “Oh my God…” and I was clapping in the meeting. It was exciting. So you don’t need to be caught up on a lot of stuff to still make sense to the story. You can just enjoy Most Wanted and just go out have a fun”.
I like to interpret it as Most Wanted is just the stories that people are telling about us out in the world. Because any story about her could be some kind of mythology. And that’s what kind of a lot of those fights feel like. As you know, there’s lightning everywhere. There’s wolves jumping out of the bushes. So I think it kind of fits the myth of the Ghost of Yōtei actually is.
With Most Wanted, I lost my mind because Oyuki is finally playable and I I was so happy about that. But what other hidden gems might Sucker Punch be continuing to cook up without telling us?
Parker Hamilton responds with “Well, right now we’re just really excited about the Complete Edition and there are a lot of really fun gems for you to find.
There are two awesome characters in Most Wanted. Nagato, who’s a character we’re introducing in Echoes of Sekigahara.
And the other character we’re really excited to bring back is Jin Sakai. The Ghost of Tsushima.”
Parker Hamilton, Systems Design Lead (Sucker Punch Productions)
Particularly to see how his sort of combat sort fits within how the Ghost of Yōtei combat system has evolved. Each of his four stances provide a sort of different ability to have an empowerment over the alignment of the different characters.
But also to bring back sticky bombs and other utilities. So there’s that and there’s fun gameplay with Jin that can trigger some fun attacks such as wind blasts, which is another fun thing we brought back with him.
Ultimately, there’s really fun cosmetics and rewards which you can unlock through Most Wanted that are fun to kind of takeback and play in the main story or even in Legends mode. So there’s definitely cool hidden Easter Eggs in there from collaborations with other teams”.
What about you Joanna? What are you hoping players are going to find with these Easter Eggs or hidden gems?
“Wow, there’s lots of cool moments in the world and our team is really creative with how they add to the world. I won’t spoil it but I think you know; You explore and let the curiosity guide you, like when you find guiding birds and just follow them.
The part I really hope players are able to enjoy are the layers of Atsu’s story and to see a different side off of her. To spend time with her past and then go back to the main story. And you know, if your thumb starts to hurt from playing you can also turn on the Beauty of Yōtei mode and just relax and enjoy the scenery. That’s another way to enjoy the game as well. So we really want players to go in and play the base game. Then legends mode. Then Most Wanted and finally ‘Echoes of Sekigahara’ followed by Beauty of Yōtei mode. We want to bring the whole package to players”.
I forgot how much I enjoyed just exploring this world of Yōtei. So it’s a thrill to be back in it. When players celebrate what they love, how much does this joy inspire Sucker Punch post-launch decisions?
Hamilton says “That’s a really good question. I think for me, one of the things I love seeing is the sort of just amazing sort of role-playing and amazing stories that players are able to demonstrate and share with each other.
Like I love when players demonstrate like an incredible, sort of Tony Haw-like combo of combat actions and navigation.
One time I saw someone who did a jump, then concentration mode to a headshot and connected to a grapple swing, which then landed into a ‘Death from Above’.
That sort of like joy of connecting the various different parts of the combat are really joyous. We try to create different sort of fantasy-empowering abilities and try to figure out how players can mix and match them together.
One of the things that we were excited about for ‘Echoes’ was this idea of bringing massive weapons in as a potential power up. So if you go for that approach, rather than bringing a weapon to you, this is a weapon that you can find that sort of provides like a, sort of empowering melee power-up moment rather than just a ranged power-up moment. There are some enemies like brutes that are armored in these encounters where you might feel “Oh man…” and on your heels because they’re dangerous and resilient. But if you can use a skill to disarm them or use one of your utilities to get the weapon, you can turn the tide really fast”.
I then have to ask Joanna for her own thoughts on what brought about ‘Echoes’.
“While Parker was talking, I had this image go through my head. One thing I will definitely say is I love to see people posting the Photo Mode and the incredible pictures they’re able to post. I think about how we’re not able to see the world at this angle or the lighting and the mood. I don’t know how people do it.
It was inspiring us. We would think “Look at that”. This is super-cool and we should do that and we should share this view in the game, and then people who are not using that trick will able to see it.
So it’s an interesting way of being able to see different persepectives and inspires us to keep pushing our vision even further.
The other inspiration is I remember I’d see videos of people turning on Kurosawa Mode and then seeing Atsu slowly walk towards the enemy and have the standoff. And I thought “Wow, this is really like the film”. Some of these feelings inspired me for the Most Wanted mode, where you get into to a duel and a big stamp BOOMS in the middle. So when you try to challenge someone, it’s like “Game on”.
So thank you to all the players sharing those.”
That’s such a great answer. Thank you Joanna.
Now this is the the part where I normally just do like a a fun question about the history of Sucker Punch. Of course I did this with Nate, Rob and Jason.
I’m I’m a of the INFAMOUS series and I’ve always tried to poke the bear and say “when do you think it’s coming back?”. But I think in your guys case, if Sucker Punch wanted to, or had the opportunity to, what franchise would you like to bring back?
Whether it be Sly Cooper or INFAMOUS or would there be and perhaps another franchise that you’d like to work on starting with you, Joanna?
“Wow, I joined Sucker Punch 22 years ago. I was just doing the calculation. I thought “It’s been a while”.
So I’ll go the corporate line and say there is no such thing as a map. I will say I love all of them. It’s kind of like you’re passionate about it and then you remember how we go through each of the projects and I just love them all. We are currently focused on the Ghost of Yōtei Complete Edition. And we want to make sure we fix anything and make it the smoothest possible. So know our focus. But if I had a dream, I love everything we’ve worked on”.
Parker adds “So I I joined about 15 years ago too. It’s the sort of beginning of Second Son.
And I’ve had so much fun working on so many of the different fantasies that the studio does. You know, from being a superhero to Samurai and Ronin. And they’re just really wonderful experiences and I love getting to contribute to all of them.
But I enjoyed Sly. I played so much of it before I joined and that was a fun experience and I feel like I missed out getting to play with that on the team. But I’m loving and enjoying working with the team and Joanna, who’s got that experience. We just love focusing on where we’re at now. We love the the the Ghost of Yōtei experience that we’re so happy about it and we’re excited for the various types of modes which hopefully speak to all the different types of players. Whether you want to play with a friend or whether you want to jump in for 15 minutes to get a cool combat experience that Most Wanted can give. We’re all about doing our best to kind of deliver those fantasies to the best level we can.”
It’s a special kind of feeling to be thanked for a fun and easy conversation with wonderful questions.
It’s the best I can do for developers works I’ve enjoyed over my time in gaming. A massive thank you to my friends at PlayStation NZ for the opportunity. And you can play the Echoes of Sekigahara expansion and Most Wanted in the Ghost of Yōtei Complete Edition, available right now on the PlayStation Store and at your preferred retailer.
